In recent years, the global economy has been shaken by a series of crises that have upended our consumption habits, infrastructures and policies. The late capitalist acceleration of consumption favours large corporations, but it is also in the interest of the diversity of our material culture and its economic and social sustainability to preserve small local design cultures. It is the product designer who has an important role to play in this: how can they adapt? Björn Koop and Lauri Hirvesaar discuss the role of the product designer in a globalising world, both in Estonia and elsewhere. The conversation is moderated by Triin Jerlei.

Triin Jerlei: First of all, who is a product designer for you?

Lauri Hirvesaar: I have often thought of the product designer as the person who gives shape to an idea. In the industry, the product designer is the link between the user and the development of technology and they should be able to make new solutions user-friendly.

TJ: How do you come up with this solution?

LH: First of all, I take all the Estonian-language interrogatives in order to understand the context, look for a relevant answer and then I start putting something down on paper.

BK: Sometimes the solution just comes while doing something manual. Technically the mind can’t catch up, but the hand automatically helps you find the solution. I like it when I don’t find a line right away, I just experiment and make several sketches. I look at Konstantin Grcic’s work and I’m always amazed at how he came up with these solutions. Either through analytical thinking or he just doodled and came up with a maze of lines, a labyrinth... And then he looked at it: ‘Oh, that works.’ Sometimes too much theoretical thinking even starts to hinder ideas. At the same time, you always have to analyse the strengths and weaknesses of your competitors: not to copy, but to see what you can do differently and how you can find your own identity.

LH: If we talk about engineers and designers, the former work with the tools, objects and materials that they have. Assembling them into a desired product. A product designer doesn’t usually have that set of ready-made components, they have to draw them and find the things they need. This is where the important difference comes in: if you work with what you already have, it’s very difficult to come up with something new. The birth of a new product from a tried and tested technical solution is limited, so we need to add something that hasn’t been done before. This is where as creative designers we can put our skills to best use, we like to create something new that is not stuck in the old. When it comes to industrial design, engineers tend to over-engineer, to put in as many different components as possible to make things as robust as possible. Designers prefer simplicity and purity, less is more.

BK: On the one hand, of course, the designers are artistic inventors, but often they are also economic engines. Apple, for example, would not be Apple without its design. The value of the company’s shares depends very much on the designer.

TJ: Right, Jonathan Ive is a household name.

LH: I don’t think I know of any other large global company where a designer is a vice president. It shows an understanding that their success story is built on good design. Design is like the finishing touch to make a product look perfect. At the same time, the designer is usually already involved at a grassroots level in how and what to do in the first place. Even Apple wouldn’t have lasted this long and gotten this far if a team somewhere had completed a box and handed it to a designer saying: ‘Now make it beautiful!’ That’s not how these things work. The designer is such an interesting character, always somewhere behind the wall, listening, watching and intervening at the right moment.

TJ: Yes, product design does not follow the logic of line production, as you have to get involved in different stages of the production process and keep up with everything from start to finish.

BK: A designer demands a lot from himself. When it comes to cars, I also wonder, have I seen a solution like this before? I think about how the intersections and other details are solved, especially on the technical side. A person from another field may not notice, but designers will contemplate the solution and the logic of the manufacturing, because they know how difficult it is to arrive at them and to finish them.

TJ: That’s a very good point that leads nicely to the next question. What is the responsibility of the product designer, especially in areas where you have to design items that are produced in large quantities on an industrial scale?

LH: It’s huge. You are responsible to the client who has commissioned the design from you, so their future business success, the company itself and ultimately all the employees depend on the products. However, to meet the user’s expectations, to be safe in every way, user-friendly, accessible... this is very important. The product designer lives with a great deal of anxiety: does their work meet all expectations, and even if it does, there is often an inner unease that something has not been tried. Maybe we could have done better... My work is over, I have already finished my work, but I look at it two years later and still think: I should have done it differently.

BK: When we introduce cutting-edge materials, we can think not only about the user today, but also about what will happen in the future. Trying to look at how the world is changing, so that in 10 or 15 years we can look back and be proud that we made the right decisions. Consumers often don’t immediately notice a product and all its features, but good products will slowly reveal themselves and will last over time. For example, the Bialetti espresso pot, invented in 1933, is still in production today. Likewise, if we can influence a customer or a manufacturing company to send the message that we are producing more economically. It’s a long-term process, but it pays off.

LH: Habits are very difficult to transform. How do you get people to do things or consume in a more economical and sustainable way? Generally, one of the best ways to do that is through design – to create products that last longer and exhaust the resources of the world less. When products are well designed, it’s much easier to change your habits. Changing things with a whip and by force doesn’t usually work very well; it should be the designer who offers the consumer a carrot with their good design.

TJ: You both have designed for the international market. Björn, you have been responsible for cars at Mitsubishi, and Lauri, you have made parcel delivery robots for Cleveron. As a product designer, how do you position yourself between an international and a local context? I think you have slightly different visions because of your different experiences.

LH: I have done most of my work for the international market while living in my home country, Estonia. That’s why it’s difficult to get a sense of what needs to be done to make the products successful on the other side of the world. Fortunately, today’s world has become so small that everyone is just a phone call or an email away when needed. It is possible to resolve technical issues very quickly from a distance, but it is more difficult to perceive the situation. You need to be on the ground. As designers, we are addressing concerns which are very much local – different mindsets, different lifestyles, different economic aspects – to the point that climates are often drastically different. When we are designing things that have to withstand outdoor conditions somewhere, there are huge differences in expectations. Here in Estonia, products have to be able to withstand a metre of snow in winter, but elsewhere it is 50 degrees Celsius in the daytime. Designers have to be open to the information they can gather and also be very good communicators. What you can’t experience first hand, so to speak, you have to learn from other people’s experiences.

BK: I have been wondering a lot about that myself. That’s why international teams are interesting, because we see the design perception of different cultures. And physical location plays a big role in that perception, which is why a lot of international design firms set up studios in different cities regardless of the origin of the team members. However, in the local market where they are located, there is a local feel, which will be present in the products. But you can’t go into the global market with a very small niche that is specific to a location: you have to find a more universal design language that has the specificity of the place but the scale of the world. Like MUJI in Japan. The global market is levelling out these corners a bit, as seen, for example, with some of the Chinese car companies that have now opened their design studios in Europe. Their products are starting to change and have already shown that they are becoming increasingly competitive.

LH: Without a local element, products tend to become homogeneous. I have tried to create things that respond to the different regional situations and user needs, but at the same time maintain our local personality through small design nuances. It is important to stay local in this great internationalisation.

BK: For example, a lot of international studios go to the Nordic countries to learn from their traditions. Japan is so fascinated by the Nordic countries that the solutions of their ‘designer products’ are often even closer to the ideals of the ‘Scandinavian style’ than the Nordic contemporary design itself. It is often difficult to tell whether the product and design are Finnish or Japanese.

TJ: What do you think is the state of product design in Estonia from a product designer’s point of view?

BK: It’s definitely not the best time for us, as we are located in the immediate neighbourhood of Russia, and this has also hit our economy and investment in local production hard. At the same time, economic crises are also a threshold for new products and solutions to enter the market. We can use this time to discover and test new materials and solutions. Vespa was born at a difficult time for Italy because there was no longer a need to produce military aircraft. World War II ended and the same factory and the same sheet metal that used to make planes was used to make simple scooters. In Britain, the Mini Cooper – a highly practical four-seater – was created during difficult times and later became a design icon. We are having a hard time, but maybe that is why we are coming up with new things.

TJ: Finally, having both been industrial product designers for a long time, how have you seen the role of a product designer change over time?

BK: At the beginning of my career, I couldn’t pay attention to all the little things and how easy they are to use, but now I notice the logic of the streets and the slopes of the pavements again and again. In the beginning, I just looked at whether a car or an object looked good to me, but later, of course, I started to think about whether we need all these things and what they are made of. The role of the designer has become much more responsible towards society and the environment. It’s still nice to draw cars, but it’s a question of whether you really need to produce that many of them. Let them just stay on paper. I haven’t had a car or a TV for years.

LH: As a beginner designer, you are first and foremost noticing existing objects: what’s good and what’s bad about them? Now, 15–20 years later, I tend to see unresolved situations and opportunities. I don’t judge so much on the appearance of an existing product, like a park bench: whether it’s nice, ugly or awkward. Rather, I see places where a bench is needed and try to create a solution where possible.